tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392785713255334701.post155145691203102244..comments2022-11-19T02:28:11.268-06:00Comments on phlebotomic: Victory: an idea whose time has comeMike Sharrowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09390371076084475045noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392785713255334701.post-37984985779156966552009-02-02T16:06:00.000-06:002009-02-02T16:06:00.000-06:00all the more ironic in a tragic manner when Victor...all the more ironic in a tragic manner when Victory is sunk by inclement circumstances:<BR/><BR/>http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/02/sunk.ship/index.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392785713255334701.post-60685322429173964102009-02-01T08:14:00.000-06:002009-02-01T08:14:00.000-06:00^ don't we love to able to answer everything...?v...^ don't we love to able to answer everything...?<BR/><BR/>victory is...<BR/><BR/>well, it must be quantifiable somehow. or not.Kyle Burkholderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319162146102629239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392785713255334701.post-69918703959818125342009-02-01T07:57:00.000-06:002009-02-01T07:57:00.000-06:00Perhaps you are both trying to address victory in ...Perhaps you are both trying to address victory in a single dimension and stretch it across a continuum of scenarios. There are accomplishments that fall short of a victory, just as their are wins that are short of a victory. You lose the game by only 2 points to a team that should have swept the floor with you - well, that's not victorious but it certainly is a dig and a boost in future prospects. Cheapening any word by trying to stretch it over all cases of echo-similarity is semantic dilution. <BR/><BR/>What drives that in us?Mike Sharrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09390371076084475045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392785713255334701.post-3857327669616239002009-01-31T17:08:00.000-06:002009-01-31T17:08:00.000-06:00Ha, well I did say “they aren’t ideas, per se.”……w...Ha, well I did say “they aren’t ideas, per se.”……wiggle room. What I was drawing out was that in our defining ideas of love, hate, etc., we set boundaries which ultimately will give us a guide post as to whether we are victorious or not. That is, one could say, “Gerald has a strange idea of what love is.” Gerald could define his “victory” in love by how many times his feet are tickled by the one he loves…and visa versa. Strange notion of love indeed.<BR/><BR/>Giddy up, spur away. <BR/><BR/>What you say is true. In my response to Mike I speak to people bringing in their own notions of victory. Say, you lost the game, but only by 2 points against a significantly superior team…….a victory. Either before the game or at the end you have conceived your definition of victory in that specific space. I meant the time duration more as an illustration that at the end of the game you have to, if you haven’t already, decide the definition of victory or defeat. So there has to be a victor and a non-victor even if the “winner” feels like a non-victor and visa versa.A. G. Waggonerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16492178853529921114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392785713255334701.post-87042408582323618262009-01-31T16:23:00.000-06:002009-01-31T16:23:00.000-06:00How are love and hate not ideas? I would argue tha...How are love and hate not ideas? I would argue that they are the most powerful and dangerous ideas. They are both, oftentimes, based on assumed knowledge that is very dangerous. Also, peace is an extension of love, and war is an extension of hate. All your quotes reflect the fact that they are both ideas. <BR/><BR/>Just to spur the conversation, why is there a clear victor/loser in a basketball game (or any other game)? I have been involved in games that we won that felt more like defeats, and I can think of many games where we lost, but we felt empowered and rejuvenated, more like victors.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12652172263523581186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392785713255334701.post-68138482574014762792009-01-29T14:05:00.000-06:002009-01-29T14:05:00.000-06:00To Paul:Yes, I suppose it could be considered a bi...To Paul:<BR/><BR/>Yes, I suppose it could be considered a binary system. A point of clarification, I am associating the idea of a zero sum to victory and defeat. It cannot be extended beyond there. I believe I can do this as I am fencing the idea around two posts of reference. In the case of love or hate, they aren’t ideas, per se. After an idea, say, “I love my cat Fran because she is fuzzy”, I would then debate and either the idea would be victorious or defeated. Silly example, I know, but I think it illustrates my thought. That is, it is not by negation that I hate my cat it is merely that I don’t love her because she is fuzzy……I would be hesitant to associate the “either/or” thought here. <BR/><BR/>I believe I feel comfortable doing this as I was only trying to define the victory “of the idea”, by way of negation.<BR/><BR/>Fun (potentially) thought: From you post, a basketball game has a clear ending. At the end of which time there will be a victor and a loser (defeated person). Everyone clearly understands the parameters of victory or defeat. However, it is not always so in life. From before, consider love. If you were to look at a point in time, you would find a happy couple. Fast forward 5 years and they have separated. What has changed? It is not necessarily that the idea of love has been defeated; rather, the idea of separation is victorious. It was thought in a point in time, but it reverberates through time. I would say that at the point of thought there is a decision, either for or against. Granted, there could be 1 Million different decisions/choices…so there would be 1 idea victory and 999,999,999 idea defeats. However, the same idea could be debated in the mind until the point where the individual dies. At which point, the victory or defeat of the idea would be resolved…..if it is something that an individual could decide on.A. G. Waggonerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16492178853529921114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392785713255334701.post-81937622043388978002009-01-29T13:29:00.000-06:002009-01-29T13:29:00.000-06:00Good point, Paul.As my friend Marcus Buckingham sa...Good point, Paul.<BR/><BR/>As my friend Marcus Buckingham says, "The opposite of 'bad' isn't 'good' - it is 'not bad'.Kyle Burkholderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319162146102629239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392785713255334701.post-16591815901669471772009-01-29T11:26:00.000-06:002009-01-29T11:26:00.000-06:00Can we really boil things down to a binary system?...Can we really boil things down to a binary system? If we do, you very efficiently showed that victory could be not defeat, then is life just merely not death? Or love solely not hate? Or is freedom just the state of being not slavery? Would the same formula extend to other "ideas?"Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12652172263523581186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392785713255334701.post-4648404261099179352009-01-29T09:48:00.000-06:002009-01-29T09:48:00.000-06:00Ha, not to be trusted eh? My apologizes, I took t...Ha, not to be trusted eh? My apologizes, I took this quote out of its context. I don't believe he is making a general statement. Instead you may insert "economic growth, freedom, liberty, etc." in the the place of "all things". Not that peace literally begat, say, ice cream.<BR/><BR/>I suppose this is where people get the idea of a "minor" victory? Then in the same token someone could have a "minor" defeat. To put in a military sense, this would be akin to a battle that was effectively a draw. Both sides, coming in with preconceived notions of what victory looks like, could both claim victory in a draw. I guess what I am getting at is, it depends how you define victory. If you read between the lines I was trying to work out a way of defining it so that it wasn't grey. I thought it odd that such a "strong" word could be potentially so grey.A. G. Waggonerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16492178853529921114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-392785713255334701.post-11174786396653718422009-01-28T21:52:00.000-06:002009-01-28T21:52:00.000-06:00WKA - I'm intrigued by the quote about "an idea th...WKA - I'm intrigued by the quote about "an idea that is not dangerous is not worth being called an idea." I'll chew on that.<BR/><BR/>In general, Austrians (hence von Mises) are not to be trusted. How can it be said peace is the father of all things?<BR/><BR/>Victory as the anti-defeat is a vantage point I hadn't considered...it seems inclined to have plurality instead of a singular claim. To have victory sounds like a very specific proposition. Anti-defeat sounds like a catch-all for anything not technically a loss or defeat. Perhaps there's something in the delta there?Mike Sharrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09390371076084475045noreply@blogger.com